Dynomotion

Group: DynoMotion Message: 9184 From: Hugh Sontag Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Bumps from axis motors
Hi Tom,

We have an aluminum bar that we're trying to cut using G-code generated from CAM software.

The CAM implements trochoidal milling, which uses a long section of the cutter. That makes our 2 mm bit sensitive to any misplacement of the spindle.

We generated two versions of the G-code, one with a more aggressive stepover than the other.

When we run either version of the G-code with KMotionCNC, we get a number of anomalies. The first operation is to cut a 3.429 mm diameter hole, by spiraling the bit slowly down into the material. During this operation, both X and Y motors are required to move in synchrony to effect a circular motion. There is a stuttering noise from the motors as the hole is cut with KMotionCNC.

Using Mach3, there is no stuttering noise. Instead, both axes move without making more than the noise of the v-bearings against the rails that support the axes.

At times when running the code with KMotionCNC, there is a "creaking ship" noise. I think it's the Y axis motor, but I can't be sure, due to the fact that the gantry is in motion in both X and Y. Occasionally, for seconds at a time, there is a noise like a ship in high seas, being stressed to the point that its planks shift against each other. After a period of time, the noise will go away, for a minute or more, and then it will come back. The occurrences seem random, not tied to what kind of movement is being made. I took video of the noise. It's available at the URL


Running the same G-code with Mach3, there is no such noise.

Unfortunately, running the G-code in Mach3 is not without a problem. When running the more-aggressive version of the G-code, every few minutes, there is a "bump" from the axis motors, which sounds very much like the sound which happens when the axes are enabled.

The third "bump" that occurred (the first when actually cutting aluminum) coincided with the 2 mm bit breaking.

When the bit broke, I initiated a feedhold in Mach3. Then, since the bit was already broken, I loaded the less-aggressive version of the G-code and started the file from the beginning. I noticed fewer "bumps" using this code, but there was one, and I suspect that it would have broken the bit, if there had been one.

After the "bump", but not immediately, I got an error message: "Unexpected Motion Buffer Starved". Until the "OK" button was clicked, nothing happened. I took a screen shot of this condition - it's attached.

Continuing after the first "Unexpected Motion Buffer Starved" message yielded two more "Unexpected Motion Buffer Starved" messages within 10 - 20 seconds of operation, at which point I abandoned my experiment.

I believe that KMotionCNC has a number of issues in interpreting the G-code. Based on the comparison, we're planning to continue with Mach3.

Further, I suspect that the Dynomotion plugin is causing the "bumps" when running under Mach3. It sounds like a very high acceleration is commanded when it shouldn't.

How can I help track this down, so that its cause can be identified and fixed?

I suppose collecting Position, Dest, and Output during the "bump" might be useful. Is there any other information that should be collected as well? Is it possible to know what lines are being executed in Mach3 at a particular time, so that could be correlated with what's happening on KFLOP? I'd like to know if the bumps always happen associated with particular G-code.

Also, could you tell me a bit about how the Dynomotion plugin works with Mach3? What information does Mach3 provide to the plugin? I don't imagine it's just step/dir. I'm curious as to how much processing the plugin does on the data; for instance, does it do linear interpolated motion? It almost has to. Does Mach3 ask the plugin to move in line segments only? Or arcs as well?

Thanks,
Hugh

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Group: DynoMotion Message: 9188 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Bumps from axis motors [1 Attachment]
Hi Hugh,

I love your description and video :}

That sounds more like a hardware/noise problem than a GCode or Trajectory Planner problem but I can't say for sure.  Also not sure why it would go away commanding from Mach3 although it does randomly come and go.

I forget what type of system you have.  I think closed loop steppers?  Do the "Ship noises" go away if open loop?

Please send me your current configuration and programs.  For us to look over.

Regarding Mach3 Plugin:  Mach3 provide multi-axis floating-point positions at fixed time intervals (fixed 2 millisecond periods).  KMotionCNC's Trajectory Planner normally provides smoother and more optimized motion than Mach3. 

Yes if you capture XY Dest and Position vs time should be a big help in determining what is going on.

Regards
TK

Group: DynoMotion Message: 9196 From: Hugh Sontag Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Bumps from axis motors
Hi Tom,

Regarding "bumps" happening when running the Dynomotion plugin with Mach3, I've collected data for X, Y, and Z axes when the bump happens.

The system has closed-loop steppers.

The data collected was Position, Dest, Output, and whether the axis was enabled for each of  X, X1, Y and Z axes. The X1 axis is slaved to the X axis. X and X1 motors drive the gantry.

There are two sets of data:

Bump_History Mach3 1-2 x 2 Al bar.txt
Bump_History Mach3 1-2 x 2 Al bar #2.txt

They are for two different bump occurrences.

I don't know if you've seen the video in which you can hear the bumps.

It's available at the URL


Have a high-speed Internet connection if you view it. It's over 1 GByte, for about 10 min of video.

I included screen shots of the configuration screen for the Dynomotion plugin, and the C source files that the Dynomotion plugin uses, as well as the source for the data collection. If there are other things you'd like to know, please tell me.

The data was collected continuously into a 5500-slot circular buffer. When the bump happened, an external switch commanded the software to disable all axes and save the data from the circular buffer into a file. The data is in the file in ascending order in time; the oldest data is first, and the newest data is at the end of the file.

I estimate that I hit the switch somewhere between 0.1 and 0.25 seconds after the bump. It startles me every time.

The entire data set can be downloaded from the URL


Thanks for your help in figuring this out.

Hugh


On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 10:51 PM, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
 

Hi Hugh,

I love your description and video :}

That sounds more like a hardware/noise problem than a GCode or Trajectory Planner problem but I can't say for sure.  Also not sure why it would go away commanding from Mach3 although it does randomly come and go.

I forget what type of system you have.  I think closed loop steppers?  Do the "Ship noises" go away if open loop?

Please send me your current configuration and programs.  For us to look over.

Regarding Mach3 Plugin:  Mach3 provide multi-axis floating-point positions at fixed time intervals (fixed 2 millisecond periods).  KMotionCNC's Trajectory Planner normally provides smoother and more optimized motion than Mach3. 

Yes if you capture XY Dest and Position vs time should be a big help in determining what is going on.

Regards
TK